Biddy the Chiver’s Khazi

[Anna Morris]

I would suppose the workhouse notation, "insane 3 days" probably referred to delirium tremens, DT's.

[Gary Barnett]

Context: Enright Surname

The map below shows that the origins of the Enright name were in NE Kerry and across neighbouring Limerick. I read somewhere that the name came either from an Irish word meaning ‘lawful’ or from a similar word meaning ‘attack’. I know which one my money would be on.

[Gary Barnett]

On 9th February, 1922, The Daily Herald reported:

Bridget Enright (76) has been burned to death at Stratfield-road, Bow, E.

The GRO index confirms the death and contains another possibly connected death in the same period/registration district.



Did Biddy lose both her mother and her older sister at the same time? I’ve got the two death certs on order and a birth cert for a John James Enright (MMN Enright) registered in Poplar in 1Q88.

When the LMA reopens next year, I’ll see if I can find Biddy’s Stone Asylum case notes and her registration at an inebriates reformatory other than Farmfield.

At the moment the old girl is a gift that just keeps on giving.

[Gary Barnett]

After being abandoned by her husband, Bridget senior spent a great deal of time, on and off, in Poplar workhouse, occasionally accompanied by her daughter Catherine, and on one occasion in 1901 with Biddy.

Biddy had been discharged from Poplar workhouse on 19th October, 1901 - to Stone Asylum. She was readmitted from Stone on 18th December, 1901. Bridget senior was also admitted on 18th December and on the following day they were both discharged at their own request.

Biddy had been admitted to Poplar workhouse on 5th October, 1901. In the observations column it says, Brought by police Insane 3 days . That comment, Insane 3 days, appears quite often in the Poplar records. I wonder what it signifies.

[Gary Barnett]

Stone Asylum

Biddy was discharged ‘recovered’ after 2 months at Stone.

[Gary Barnett]

Stone Asylum

After seemingly being abandoned by her husband, Bridget senior spent a great deal of time, on and off, in Poplar workhouse, occasionally accompanied by her daughter Catherine, and on one occasion in 1901 with Biddy.

Biddy was discharged from Poplar workhouse on 19th October, 1901 - to Stone Asylum. She was readmitted from Stone on 18th December, 1901. Bridget senior was also admitted on 18th December and on the following day they were both discharged at their own request.

[Anna Morris]

Languages have loan words from other languages. Since the Romani travelled and kept travelling, they did business with many cultures. Horses have long been a commodity of the Rom so it makes sense that basic words concerning horse trading would become slang or loan words wherever the Rom did business.

There is a comment below about Rom words in Cockney. Quite awhile ago I wondered if MJK could have been Romani, largely because of the name Marie Jeanette and the six brothers at home in London or other places. I did a lot of research and it looks like Romani camped near the East End. There are some pictures of the Rom wagons in the area.

[Gary Barnett]

I just read through this thread. Really interesting stuff here Gary. I think that we could safely call Biddy a ‘character.’

I’ve dated worse to be honest.

She certainly was!

As for your second point, I think I’ll take the Fifth...

[Gary Barnett]

There was a study done a few years ago into the history of language. They took a few basic words such as water and its equivalent in as many languages as possible and traced the history of those words. The results were that an enormous percentage (more than 95%) of the worlds languages date back to a common language 40,000 years ago. One of the exceptions was the Basque language spoken in Spain and France which seems to be unique.

I’ve been doing a bit of reading about the Romani language in the past few days - it’s a fascinating subject. I now think that nokengro may translate to ‘nose thing’ and refer to the laboured breathing of glandered horses.

[Michael Banks]

I just read through this thread. Really interesting stuff here Gary. I think that we could safely call Biddy a ‘character.’

I’ve dated worse to be honest.

[Phillip Walton]

I’ve got an interesting old book, The Wind on the Heath: A Gypsy Anthology (1930). There’s a chapter on “Egipte Speche” and a glossary of “Romani Words” that includes chin (cut).

There are a few words - kushto (cushty=good, and possibly cushy = comfortable), bar (= pound), moey (mooey=mouth/face), chavo (chav = boy) - that seem to have made it into the English (or at least cockney) vernacular.

There’s even a word nokengro for a glandered horse. I suspect the nok element of the word may have something to do with knacker.

There was a study done a few years ago into the history of language. They took a few basic words such as water and its equivalent in as many languages as possible and traced the history of those words. The results were that an enormous percentage (more than 95%) of the worlds languages date back to a common language 40,000 years ago. One of the exceptions was the Basque language spoken in Spain and France which seems to be unique.

[Gary Barnett]

As we have seen, in February, 1912 Bridget Enright was committed to a certified inebriate reformatory for a period of three years. The 1898 Inebriate’s Act laid the basis for the creation of both state-run and privately-run (certified) inebriate reformatories as a measure to counter the increasing problem of drunkenness in the population. Any person repeatedly convicted of drunkenness, or convicted of an imprisonable offence committed while under the influence of alcohol, could be committed to a reformatory for up to three years. Although there was no gender bias in the legislation itself, the majority of those convicted under the Act and sent to the reformatories were women. In 1904, women made up 91% of those committed to these reformatories.

Almost from the outset, the Inebriate Reformatories system was considered a failure, most of those committed under it re-offending within a short time of their release. The regimes of the reformatories were also criticised for being too lax. In November, 1908, the Illustrated London News carried a photo essay entitled “The Pleasant Lot of the Inebriate in Captivity”. It contained a number of images of the comfortable conditions in which the inebriates were held, including one showing a typical day’s food ration, which was said to be ‘better than the ordinary prison diet’:

[ATTACH]20753[/ATTACH]

Cushy as the conditions in these institutions may have been, the length of the sentences, often measured in years rather than the days/weeks/months imprisonment that had been the norm for such offences, were considerably more harsh.

I’m off to the LMA tomorrow to have a gander at the records of the Farmfield Reformatory. Fingers crossed, if that was where Bridget was sent, I may be able to access her case notes. ����

I couldn’t find Biddy in the Farmfield records. The search continues...

[Gary Barnett]

ĆChivĆ can ultimatelz be traced to Sanskrit rather than Romani? The Gzpsz, that is Rom, trace origins back to India, thus ĆchivĆ could easilz be originallz Romani.

MY [expletive] RAT-SIZED DOG flipped on the Croatian keyboard. I knew he'd get his eight or ten little legs on all the right keys sometime! He is like a spider that looks like a mop!

If "chiv" traces back to Sanskrit, it traces back to Romani (Gypsy) roots as the Rom are believed to come from India and thereabouts. MANY words in western languages actually trace back to India or Iran via Proto-Indo-European language.

I’ve got an interesting old book, The Wind on the Heath: A Gypsy Anthology (1930). There’s a chapter on “Egipte Speche” and a glossary of “Romani Words” that includes chin (cut).

There are a few words - kushto (cushty=good, and possibly cushy = comfortable), bar (= pound), moey (mooey=mouth/face), chavo (chav = boy) - that seem to have made it into the English (or at least cockney) vernacular.

There’s even a word nokengro for a glandered horse. I suspect the nok element of the word may have something to do with knacker.

[Anna Morris]

ĆChivĆ can ultimatelz be traced to Sanskrit rather than Romani? The Gzpsz, that is Rom, trace origins back to India, thus ĆchivĆ could easilz be originallz Romani.

MY [expletive] RAT-SIZED DOG flipped on the Croatian keyboard. I knew he'd get his eight or ten little legs on all the right keys sometime! He is like a spider that looks like a mop!

If "chiv" traces back to Sanskrit, it traces back to Romani (Gypsy) roots as the Rom are believed to come from India and thereabouts. MANY words in western languages actually trace back to India or Iran via Proto-Indo-European language.

[Gary Barnett]

Farmfield?

As we have seen, in February, 1912 Bridget Enright was committed to a certified inebriate reformatory for a period of three years. The 1898 Inebriate’s Act laid the basis for the creation of both state-run and privately-run (certified) inebriate reformatories as a measure to counter the increasing problem of drunkenness in the population. Any person repeatedly convicted of drunkenness, or convicted of an imprisonable offence committed while under the influence of alcohol, could be committed to a reformatory for up to three years. Although there was no explicit gender bias in the legislation itself, the majority of those convicted under the Act and sent to the reformatories were women. In 1904, women made up 91% of those committed to these reformatories.

Almost from the outset, the Inebriate Reformatories system was deemed a failure, most of those committed under it re-offending within a short time of their release. The regimes of the reformatories were also criticised for being too lax. In November, 1908, the Illustrated London News carried a photo essay entitled “The Pleasant Lot of the Inebriate in Captivity”. It contained a number of images of the comfortable conditions in which the inebriates were held, including one showing a typical day’s food ration, which was said to be ‘better than the ordinary prison diet’:



Cushy as the conditions in these institutions may have been, the lengths of the sentences, often measured in years rather than the days/weeks/months imprisonment that had been the norm for such offences, were considerably more harsh.

I’m off to the LMA tomorrow to have a gander at the records of the Farmfield Reformatory. Fingers crossed, if that was where Bridget was sent, I may be able to access her case notes. ����