To the Ladies of the Forums

[Robert Linford]

Do any of you know what was the LVP procedure for feeding babies whose mothers died in childbirth? Did it have to be a nurse mother or was some kind of concoction mixed in a bottle?

[Anna Morris]

Various things were done. Milk from animal sources. Goats' milk was considered good. Sugar water. It didn't nourish the child but provided calories.

[Robert Linford]

Thanks Anna,

[Anna Morris]

Then as now some parents gave alcohol to babies to quiet them. I have read that beer or ale was considered nourishing sometimes.

Problem with alcohol in small children is rebound hypoglycemia which can do physiological and neurological damage.

Broths have been used when milk was unavailable of in short supply. Some mother's milk is not nourishing enough and babies don't thrive so broths are sometimes used for supplement.

In the southern U. S. a "sugar tit" was a lump of sugar wrapped in a rag. DIY pacifier I suppose.

In the Middle East, until today, mothers or others in the family chew adult foods and give the chewed foods to babies. Not necessarily fresh born babies needing milk, but soon. This is actually healthy in that the mother's flora and fauna and her immune system components help strengthen same in the child.

At this point this is probably more information that you want. I lived with Middle Eastern people and got used to the concept. (The "Ban Me Please" smilie is not available at the moment.) ;-)

[Robert Linford]

Hi Anna


Well, if they do it in the Middle East then I can only assume it works, for evolutionary reasons. Birds do the same. In fact, some birds after hatching their eggs will eat the shells to recycle the calcium in the hope of having another batch.


I asked because my great-grandmother died giving birth to my grandmother.

[Debra Arif]

I asked because my great-grandmother died giving birth to my grandmother.

So dd mine, Robert. But in the early 1900s rather than the LVP. I never thought to ask what my great great grandmother may have fed my 12 day old grandmother after she took on the role of mother but whatever it was I'm grateful it helped her live a long life in to her 80's. Even in the 60s before formula was invented some babies were fed boiled cows milk (from tuberculosis free cows tha knows) served in a scalded out brown sauce bottle with ad lib teet!...Never did me any harm.

[Robert Linford]

Snap, Debs. My grandmother was born 1900. Her mother died in childbirth and I was told there was a still-born twin brother. Her father already had a four-year-old son and two girls of nine and ten. Of course he was out in the day working and an east end missionary found the girls trying to look after the baby. She offered my great-grandfather a chance to have the baby fostered by a good family. What could he do? So he accepted.


The foster family lived a few doors away from the missionary. There was a pregnancy in the foster family but my grandmother was about one by then.


The missionary paid the foster family's expenses and kept in touch with my grandmother till she died, giving the children little gifts. When my grandmother hadn't heard from her for a while she wrote and got a letter back saying she'd died. They were sorry they hadn't informed her but they couldn't write to all the people she'd helped - there were just too many.


Apparently when my grandmother was born she was tiny and people said 'she won't make old bones.' She was 4ft 10, had 4 children and died aged 77.

[Debra Arif]

Snap, Debs. My grandmother was born 1900. Her mother died in childbirth and I was told there was a still-born twin brother. Her father already had a four-year-old son and two girls of nine and ten. Of course he was out in the day working and an east end missionary found the girls trying to look after the baby. She offered my great-grandfather a chance to have the baby fostered by a good family. What could he do? So he accepted.


The foster family lived a few doors away from the missionary. There was a pregnancy in the foster family but my grandmother was about one by then.


The missionary paid the foster family's expenses and kept in touch with my grandmother till she died, giving the children little gifts. When my grandmother hadn't heard from her for a while she wrote and got a letter back saying she'd died. They were sorry they hadn't informed her but they couldn't write to all the people she'd helped - there were just too many.


Apparently when my grandmother was born she was tiny and people said 'she won't make old bones.' She was 4ft 10, had 4 children and died aged 77.

That's so sad, Robert.It could have been a story right from the East End during 1888 . I don't think it was the done thing for men to bring up their children alone, even if they'd wanted to. Lovely that your grandmother was helped by the missionary and that she took a lifelong interest in your grandmothers wellbeing. People who genuinely care are very rare.

My grandmother was born in 1918 and her mother survived childbirth but died of 'child bed fever' 12 days later. Her father scarpered soon after that and was never seen again. She was an only child so her grandmother brought her up the best she could. I know that her grandmother would place her in the workhouse from time to time but then go back for her almost immediately beause she felt guilty. She had a copy of her own birth certificate that was marked with details of her cicumstances and mentions of some institution on it but I forget the exact details now.

Amazingly, she was also tagged as a sickly child who probably wouldn't thrive
My grandmother was also under 5ft tall and went on to have four children and lived to 85. Her and my grandfather had celebrated 60 years of marriage the year she died.

[Robert Linford]

Hi Debs


And all without the help of the modern benefits system. God, they made them tough in those days. When the Great Depression hit, people were being told to sell their 'superfluous' furniture before they could qualify for the meagre assistance on offer.


Back in the 1960s you'd sometimes get an old girl come on a quiz show and say something like "I've been married 50 years and I have x children, y grandchildren and z great-grandchildren" and the audience would applaud. I'd wonder why!


Did you ever trace your grandfather?

[Debra Arif]

Hi Robert

We did attempt to trace my great grandfather for my grandmother when she was alive but didn't find out what happened to him after 1918 when he left. I did manage to trace his history in Cumbria before he came to Yorkshire and my grandma managed to visit the village he was born and brought up in before she died.
My grandmother had also been told growing up that William Gargan the US actor was her cousin (nephew of her grandma). She even remembered him visiting from America when she was a young girl in the 30's and how he was beautifully dressed and seemed very well off.
I found that although she did have a cousin William Gargin, a US citizen living in Boston, he was not the famous actor. He had been taken to Canada from Yorkshire as a child originally with his parents and siblimgs and then later crossed the border to the US, becomming a citizen there.

It seems that William Gargin cheekily passed himself off as the actor on his visit to Yorkshire as descendants of his mothers family, not related to ours, had even heard the story and remembered him visiting them in Wath!

Last year I found William Gargin's naturalisation papers and they contained a photograph of him.I have to say he probably would have fooled me too-he did have a look of the actor!

So, sadly my grandma had a couple of her romantic notions about her family shattered. She'd always been told that her father had said she'd never want for anthing and although she grew up in want, she still always clung on to the idea that he was more than just a working class bloke who ran away and that one day he'd come back for her.

[Robert Linford]

Hi Debs


Your great-grandmother probably tried to give your grandmother a good image of her father, even though she may have cursed him in private.


I assume you've checked his birth date against the 1939 register and drawn a blank.


Re Mr Gargin, I'm afraid we chaps like to show off. I keep meaning to emigrate and come back as Paul Newman, but I never get around to it.

[Debra Arif]

Hi Debs


Your great-grandmother probably tried to give your grandmother a good image of her father, even though she may have cursed him in private.


I assume you've checked his birth date against the 1939 register and drawn a blank.


Re Mr Gargin, I'm afraid we chaps like to show off. I keep meaning to emigrate and come back as Paul Newman, but I never get around to it.

No, I never did that, Robert because it was a long time before the 1939 register when we looked for him and I don't have the 39 access now so completely forgot about having a look there!

[Robert Linford]

Debs, if you want to PM me name and birth date, I'll look.

[Debra Arif]

Debs, if you want to PM me name and birth date, I'll look.

Thanks Robert! I sent you a PM.

[Howard Brown]

Heck of a story about your Grandmother, Debs....thank you for posting it.
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