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  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    This is from an 1810 directory and seems to identify 79, Pennington Street as the first house after the Red Lion corner.

    [ATTACH]14919[/ATTACH]
    Thanks Gary,

    This is from the Old Bailey trial:

    I am the wife of John McCarthy, of 1, Breeze Hill, St. George's; that is next to 79, Pennington Street

    Next to each other with a Public House in between maybe?

    Comment


    • Pennington Street

      Jerry,

      Doesn't sound quite right, does it, unless the pub was a ruin by then. What I can't get past is the Goad map which clearly shows no. 1 as a dwelling distinct from the pub.

      Gary.

      Comment


      • I have had a look at the 1871 census for the Pennington Street area.
        It runs like this:

        Virginia Street – 1 Sugar House – inhabited by 21 Hanoverian sugar refiners.
        4 Breezers Hill – a family of Hanoverian sugar refiners.
        3 Breezers Hill – a family of Prussian sugar refiners and a Prussian lodging house keeper (Buck?)
        2 Breezers Hill – John Williams and family – a Horse Clipper born in High Beach, Essex and the Luff family
        1 Breezers Hill – a licenced victualler (can’t read name)
        Red Lion – The Salter Family
        80 Pennington Street - a family of Hanoverian sugar refiners – and some more Salters
        81 Pennington Street – Swiss Blacksmith
        2 Red Lion Court – German sugar refiners
        1 Red Lion Court – German sugar refiners
        3 Red Lion Court – a local painter and his family
        82 Pennington Street – a Hanoverian blacksmith
        87 Pennington Street – a boarding house keeper
        88 Pennington Street – a sailors’ lodging house keeper.

        This matches the 1887 Goad map exactly – bit some door numbers are not given on the Goad map.
        This means that the Red Lion was no. 79.

        I hope this makes up for the unpardonable sin of getting Shovel Alley in the wrong place.
        I had to shift Ma Lechmere’s house over a tad as it would be obscured by the tower block.

        Comment


        • Can anyone still access the Sheldon's book on Kindle?
          Mine has disappeared and I can't find it on Amazon anymore.

          Comment


          • There is some confusion over the location of the Red Lion as can be seen here:

            http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/St...Breezers.shtml

            But Red Lion Court is the give away.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
              Can anyone still access the Sheldon's book on Kindle?
              Mine has disappeared and I can't find it on Amazon anymore.
              Same here.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                I have had a look at the 1871 census for the Pennington Street area.
                It runs like this:

                Virginia Street – 1 Sugar House – inhabited by 21 Hanoverian sugar refiners.
                4 Breezers Hill – a family of Hanoverian sugar refiners.
                3 Breezers Hill – a family of Prussian sugar refiners and a Prussian lodging house keeper (Buck?)
                2 Breezers Hill – John Williams and family – a Horse Clipper born in High Beach, Essex and the Luff family
                1 Breezers Hill – a licenced victualler (can’t read name)
                Red Lion – The Salter Family
                80 Pennington Street - a family of Hanoverian sugar refiners – and some more Salters
                81 Pennington Street – Swiss Blacksmith
                2 Red Lion Court – German sugar refiners
                1 Red Lion Court – German sugar refiners
                3 Red Lion Court – a local painter and his family
                82 Pennington Street – a Hanoverian blacksmith
                87 Pennington Street – a boarding house keeper
                88 Pennington Street – a sailors’ lodging house keeper.

                This matches the 1887 Goad map exactly – bit some door numbers are not given on the Goad map.
                This means that the Red Lion was no. 79.

                I hope this makes up for the unpardonable sin of getting Shovel Alley in the wrong place.
                I had to shift Ma Lechmere’s house over a tad as it would be obscured by the tower block.
                Sugar baking was a major industry in the East End at the time and quite a few of the bakers were German.

                http://www.mawer.clara.net/white6.html
                The man who runs this site is a descendent of the owners of the sugar house in Church/Hanbury Street. I was in touch with him last year and he now refers to the 'Incident in Church Street' on the site, although he didn't quite take on board the point I was making.

                The Landlady's name was Mary Martha Blinkhorn, which sounds possibly Germanic, as does Bremm/Bromm of the White Bear.

                Comment


                • That is a strange website.
                  I had no idea the German community in that part of the East End was linked to the sugar industry - even the German Church on Alie Street was built by a sugar refiner.

                  I don't recall anyone mentioning that the revised e-edition of the Sheldons' victims book - with the extra info about Mary Kelly in Breezer's Hill - had been withdrawn. But I think it has been.
                  That is the trouble with Kindle books. You don't 'own' them.
                  I recall someone saying recently that the Sheldons had 'withdrawn' from 'the field'. Perhaps they simultaneously withdrew their book?
                  I wonder of anyone knows.

                  Comment


                  • Ed:

                    The first edition of Neal & Jen's book is still available, if anyone wanted to know.
                    I didn't know Neal had put out a revised edition.
                    To Join JTR Forums :
                    Contact [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • I hope this revised map is more accurate...

                      The Orange reflects the amendments - moving old Ma Lechmere's house to the east, shifting Shovel Alley and slightly changing the location of the Swedish Church.

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                      • How
                        You must have known they put out a revised edition - it had all the stuff about the Bukis and Morgansterns.
                        Didn't it?

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                        • Ed,

                          The revised map is definitely an improvement on the first.

                          E for effort!

                          Gary

                          Comment


                          • Pennington Street

                            This account of a boiler explosion at a sugar refinery in Breezers Hill is from 1853.

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                            • Here is the 1881 Census for the area around Breezers Hill

                              4 Breezers Hill – Norwegian Lodging House Keeper
                              3 Breezers Hill – Hanoverian Sugar Farmers
                              2 Breezers Hill – Davies family from Bermondsey
                              1 Breezers Hill – Hart family from the East End and a couple of boarders and Garrett family from Worcestershire.

                              79 Pennington Street – Miller family from Germany (unemployed tailor) and some boarders
                              80 Pennington Street – Market porter and family from Holland
                              81 Pennington Street – A Swiss engine fitter and his family
                              82 Pennington Street – Watmore family from Buckinghamshire – a Horse Keeper
                              88 Pennington Street – a German Dyer and his family.
                              89 Pennington Street – a Hanoverian watchman and his family

                              Comment


                              • Pennington Street

                                This has been posted at least twice before, first by Debra Arif and then again by me, but this lady rightfully belongs here. Presumably she lived at either 3 or 4, Breezers Hill since by 1905 1, 2 and The Red Lion had been replaced by Gooch and Cousens' warehouse.



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