Vigilance Committees

[Howard Brown]

Over on the "Albert Bachert" thread,Debra Arif and A.P.Wolf have brought up some very interesting points...which perhaps we can expand on here.

Were the Vigilance Committees responsible in some or large part for the dispossession of many of the "unfortunates" in the East End in 1887 and in 1888?

Maybe even aiding and abetting the Ripper ?

[Chris G.]

Over on the "Albert Bachert" thread,Debra Arif and A.P.Wolf have brought up some very interesting points...which perhaps we can expand on here.

Were the Vigilance Committees responsible in some or large part for the dispossession of many of the "unfortunates" in the East End in 1887 and in 1888?

Maybe even aiding and abetting the Ripper ?

Hi Howie

Thanks. And picking up from what Debbie said on the other board:

Exactly AP, weren't the original Vigilance committees the whole reason these poor women were on the streets in the first place after their major cull of brothels, lodging houses, coffee houses etc in 87? Where else did they have to go afterwards except dark alleys, desserted squares and the like?..

Howie, Debbie, and AP

I think there are some things we need to get clear. First of all, people who study the case tend to think that the Vigilance Committees were organized to battle the Ripper crimes. However, there were committees of that name that existed before the Ripper scare which were meant to battle prostitution. So there is that gray area that such committees existed before and during the Ripper crimes. Also there is the matter of whether the Whitechapel, Mile End, and Spitalfields committees were all one of the same group or whether they were separate committees or else anti-prostitution or anti-Ripper committees. I think it would be very helpful if we could help elucidate this matter. The fine archival/newspaper work that Robert Linford and Chris Scott do might help clarify this murky area.

All the best

Chris

[Howard Brown]

Thanks C.G.

Maybe I should clarify that what I meant by "aiding and abetting" didn't mean the vigilance committees were aware of their actions and/or in how they may have indirectly created a situation that made the Whitechapel Murderer's job a little easier. Probably not...but I figured it might stir up some discussion.

[Debra Arif]

The general term 'vigilance committee' applied to any group of people who were designated or formed to oversee certain things that were deemed to need extra eyes as it were. Trade Union groups had them as did political parties. There were many about for all sorts of different reasons.
There were the ones formed in different Parishes under the umbrella of the ' National Vigilance Association' to 'out' lodgings houses, coffee shops etc which were being used at disorderly houses and brothels, much of their most productive work was up to 87 then it seemed to lose the support of the police. With stricter and stricter rules being applied to lodging houses and all these extra eyes keeping watch on other places prostitutes might have normally taken a client a lot of women would have found themselves being forced to take clients to street locations where in the past they may not have.
The original Mile end Vigilance Committee was one of these brothel closing types wasn't it? The confusion may lie within the press, confusing the already formed Mile End Vigilance Committee with the committee that Lusk headed and who met at Mile End but called themselves the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, I have never yet come across a newspaper reference to a Whitechapel Vigilance committee in use before the murders in 88, which seems to have been started from scratch specifically for aiding the police in the hunt for JTR?
There was also a City Vigilance Committee formed, a Jew Vigilance Committee, a Workingmans Vigilance Committee and many others, specifically as a result of the murders and I think the Whitechapel one would have been the same.But it is a murky area, and I myself have spent many hours trawling newspapers trying to sort it out a little.

Debs

[Debra Arif]

Maybe the key to separating out the groups here would also be the funding issue?
The committees set up as part of the National vigilance association's attempts at vice control would have been funded by the main organisation itself I would have thought.
The Whitechapel vigilance committee had to appeal for funds and just before Mary Kelly's murder they had had to wind down operations considerably through lack of money hadn't they?
If they were connected to the vice side maybe they would have received money from the National associations raised funds?

[Howard Brown]

Dear Debs:

Thanks very much for elaborating on this issue. Its very interesting.

Hopefully A.P. will pop in ( as well as others ) on this aspect of the Case.

By the way,Happy Turkey Day to you and yours,Debra.

[AP Wolf]

Yes How, a good idea this thread.
I was faintly surprised to find this following report from the 'Belfast News Letter' of November 19th 1888 which gives some detail on the contacts between the police investigating the murder of Mary Kelly, and a Texan who was the 'Boss' of a Vigilance Committee investigating the series of murders that had taken place there earlier.
I do believe that this might be the first record ever of such a contact between the two distinct investigations, and of great importance to our image and understanding of the Whitechapel Murders.

[Chris G.]

The general term 'vigilance committee' applied to any group of people who were designated or formed to oversee certain things that were deemed to need extra eyes as it were. Trade Union groups had them as did political parties. There were many about for all sorts of different reasons. . . .

There was also a City Vigilance Committee formed, a Jew Vigilance Committee, a Workingmans Vigilance Committee and many others, specifically as a result of the murders and I think the Whitechapel one would have been the same.But it is a murky area, and I myself have spent many hours trawling newspapers trying to sort it out a little.

Debs

Maybe the key to separating out the groups here would also be the funding issue?
The committees set up as part of the National vigilance association's attempts at vice control would have been funded by the main organisation itself I would have thought.
The Whitechapel vigilance committee had to appeal for funds and just before Mary Kelly's murder they had had to wind down operations considerably through lack of money hadn't they?
If they were connected to the vice side maybe they would have received money from the National associations raised funds?

Hi Debbie

Actually I think vigilance commitees set up for various reasons long pre-dated the Ripper era and that the practice of forming such citizen committees may have gone back centuries.

I say this because here in Baltimore, there were commitees of vigilance and safety both during the American Revolution and the War of 1812. They were formed, one committee in both instances, to organize the defense of the city. I am assuming the terminology and the tradition came from English civic practice.

Good idea, Debbie, to "follow the money" to figure out what the East End vigilance committees were all about and how they operated.

All the best

Chris

[AP Wolf]

The 'Vigilance Committee of London' had one aim:

'Having for its object the suppression of prostitution'.

WT Stead was the great shaker and mover behind these Vigilance Committees who wanted the pubs closed early, the brothels closed down... and the prostitutes out on the streets.
And then up popped Jack, who had as his object the suppression of prostitutes.
Stead and his fellow bastards were the fuel, and Jack the fire.
What the hell did they expect?

[AP Wolf]

And just look who we got here, from the 'East London Observer', 17th August 1889:


The Spitalfields Vigilance Committee. A very interesting ceremony took place in connection with the above association at the "Paul's Head," Crispin-street, Spitalfields on Monday last, when three presentations were made to Mr. George Evans, Mr. Ivan Gelder and Mr. M. Martin, the inspector, the hon. secretary, and the sergeant of the Vigilance Committee respectively. The presentations took the form of a framed portrait of the leading vigilance men. Appropriate speeches were made by Mr. Stead, president of the society, and Messrs. Evans, Gelder and Martin in acknowledging the gifts. The proceedings terminated with the pleasures of harmony.

[AP Wolf]

This one is a lot of fun.

Irish Times
Dublin, Ireland
Monday, 17 September 1888

From LONDON CORRESPONDENCE
Nothing fresh so far has transpired with regard to the East End murders. The panic, according to the latest reports, has somewhat subsided; still everything in the shape of a rumour of an arrest spreads through the locality like wildfire, and the police stations in the neighbourhood are hourly besieged with curious inquirers. The mooted Vigilance Committee is at present engrossing the minds of residents in the East End of London, but it is a scheme fraught with danger and difficulties. Amateur detectives and amateur constables hardly meet with the support of the general public in cases of this serious magnitude, and the opinion of a police officer with a long experience of street work in the East End of London is worth giving.
With regard to the proposed Vigilance Committee's prospects he remarks, "It won't last a month. They'll get little help - at last no more help than anyone else - from our chaps: and if they get interfering with respectable people our men will 'run them in' as a caution for future behaviour. With regard to the roughs, well all I an say is 'they will have a high old time of it' and to the benefit of our men. They can, to use their own words, 'smell a fly copper' - i.e. plain clothes man; and when they get hold of an 'amateur' or two, God help the amateurs! Kicking a regular policeman is a pleasure at any time not lightly to be spoken of, but the chances of 'booting' the head or ribs of an amateur 'slop' will afford a new and indescribable pleasure, and one to be indulged in on every possible occasion. These 'vigilants' will be looked upon as 'copper's noses' or 'copper's narks' - i.e. police informers - and to use the roughs own words, 'a copper' is bad enough, but his 'nark!' - well, kill him, and that is about what he will get, or something very near it. They have forgotten one thing in their outfit, and that is an 'ambulance' - that will be wanted oftener than truncheons. At least I think so."

[Monty]

Debs,

The original Mile end Vigilance Committee was one of these brothel closing types wasn't it? The confusion may lie within the press, confusing the already formed Mile End Vigilance Committee with the committee that Lusk headed and who met at Mile End but called themselves the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, I have never yet come across a newspaper reference to a Whitechapel Vigilance committee in use before the murders in 88, which seems to have been started from scratch specifically for aiding the police in the hunt for JTR?

Mile End/Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, Lusks version. I have a fomation date of September 10th 1888. I think Chapmans death and the effect the murders were having on local trade (though Im aware some business made lots of money out of the crimes) were the motivating factors. See the following Pall Mall Gazette article dated Tuesday 11th September 1888


THE MYSTERIOUS MURDERS

No further arrests have been made in connection with murders in Whitechapel, and, so far as we are at present informed, the search has been as far as the attainment of any real evidence is concerned, absolutely futile. There is only one man in custody at Leman-street, and all those who were taken on suspicion to Commercial-street and Bethnal-green have been discharged. As regards the arrests reported yesterday the man named Pizer, who was at first said to be the notorious "Leather Apron," was not liberated in the afternoon, but is still in custody, although not charged with any specific offence. It is thought that if he is not actually implicated in the murder, or murders, he may still be able to throw some light upon the affair, and it is considered probable that he will be charges on suspicion, as without that step being taken the police will be unable to keep him in custody. When this man was apprehended Detective Inspector Thicke took possession of five sharp long-bladed knives - which, however, are used by men in Pizer's trade (that of boot finisher) - and also several old hats. With reference to the latter, several women who stated they were acquainted with the prisoner, alleged he had been in the habit of wearing different hats.

Then as regards the arrest in a tavern at Gravesend of a man named Pigott. After being brought to London he was examined by several witnesses, who however, failed to identify him as the man wanted. The divisional surgeon pronounced him to be a lunatic, and he was removed to the Whitechapel Infirmary, where he is kept under close observation. It was, however, rather a singular story which this man told when the police arrested him:-

"On approaching the man, who seemed in a somewhat dazed condition, the sergeant saw that one of his hands bore recently made wounds. Being interrogated as to the cause of this, Pigott made a somewhat rambling statement to the effect that while going down Brick-lane, Whitechapel, at half-past four on Saturday morning he saw a woman fall in a fit. He stopped to pick her up, and she bit his hand. Exasperated at this he struck her, but seeing two policemen coming up he then ran away. The sergeant, deeming the explanation unsatisfactory, took Pigott to the police-station, where his clothing was carefully examined by Dr Whitcombe, the divisional surgeon. The result of the scrutiny was an announcement two shirts which Pigott carried in a bundle were stained with blood, and also that blood appeared to have been recently wiped off his boots. After the usual caution the prisoner made a further statement to the effect that the woman who bit him was in the street at the back of a lodging house when seized with the fit. He added that he slept at a lodging-house in Osbourne-street on Thursday night, but on Friday was walking the streets of Whitechapel all night. He tramped from London to Gravesend on Saturday. He gave his age as fifty-two, and stated he was a native of Gravesend, his father having some years ago had a position there in connection with the Royal Liver Society. Subsequently Pigott told the police that he had been keeping several public houses in London."

As the prisoner's description tallied with the description of the suspected murderer he was detained, and subsequently removed to London, but, as we have seen, when confronted with the women who had furnished descriptions to the police it was unanimous opinion that Pigott was not "Leather Apron".

A meeting of the chief local tradesmen was held yesterday, at which an influential committee was appointed, consisting of sixteen well-known gentlemen, with Mr J. Aarons as the secretary. The committee issued last evening a notice stating that they will give a substantial reward for the capture of the murderer or for information leading thereto. The movement has been warmly taken up by the inhabitants, and it is thought certain that a large sum will be subscribed within the next few days. Mr Montagu, the member for Whitechapel, has offered a reward of £100 for the capture of the murderer.

The following official notice has been circulated throughout the metropolitan police district and all police-stations throughout the country: "Description of a man who entered a passage of the house at which the murder was committed of a prostitute at 2 A.M. on the 8th, - Age thirty-seven; height 5ft 7 in; rather dark beard and moustache. Dress - shirt, dark jacket, dark vest and trousers, black scarf, and black felt hat. Spoke with a foreign accent."





And the 16 members we we talking about last night and mentioned above?

Highlighted in bold are their names in the following East London Advertiser article dated Saturday, 22 September 1888


LATEST DETAILS.

The atrocious murders of Whitechapel are still the all absorbing topic of conversation in the East End, and any fresh item of news or even the vaguest rumour is received with avidity. Now, however, the confidence in the police is becoming less and less as the days pass by without any satisfactory action on the part of the authorities. It is held in several local influential quarters that all has not been done that might have been done. The Press has been flooded with letters from residents in East London offering suggestions and advice, and drawing moral lessons from the outrages all more or less wide of the mark. Several clergymen - notably the Rev. S. A. Barnett, of St. Jude's, Whitechapel, and the Rev. W. Evans Hurndall, of Harley-street Chapel, Bow - have also penned epistles to contemporaries on the subject, but the practical outcome of all the correspondence has only been the airing of certain theories on the social status of the inhabitants of the locality in question. The question of a reward being offered by the Government has occupied much attention, and great indignation has been expressed that the Home Office has not taken steps in the matter. The foreman of the jury sitting on the body of the woman Nicholls, who was found brutally murdered in Buck's-row, has stated that if a substantial reward had been offered in the first case the two last murders would never have been perpetrated. If the matter were put before the Home Secretary and a large reward offered the foreman stated his willingness to subscribe £25 towards it. The local committee, which has been formed chiefly through the efforts of Mr. Aaron, of The Crown, Mile End-road, Mr. B. Harris, Mr. Lusk, and a few other gentlemen, has been steadily working with the object of gaining enough money to offer a further and additional reward to that already published by Mr. Montagu, M.P., but up to the present a large measure of success has not attended their efforts. The committee complain that the people generally do not respond quickly to their appeal for funds. On Monday evening, a meeting of the committee, formed under the title of the Mile End Vigilance Committee, was held at the Crown Tavern, for the purpose of considering the best means for preventing a repetition of the late dreadful murders, and for securing the detection of the criminals. Mr. Lusk occupied the chair, and there were present, amongst others, Messrs. Cohen, Aarons, Houghton, H. A. Harris, Laughton, Lord, Isaacs, Rogers, Mitchell, Barnett, Hodgins, Lindsay, Reeves, Jacobs, and B. Harris, the hon. sec. In the course of the proceedings a long list of subscriptions towards the reward fund for the apprehension of the murderer was read, including £5 from Mr. Spencer Charrington. It was decided that as soon as £100 was gathered the reward bills would be sent out. It transpired that on the 15th inst. the committee sent a letter to the Home Secretary on the subject, which was to the following effect:- "At a meeting of the committee of gentlemen, held at 74, Mile End-road, E., it was resolved to approach you upon the subject of the reward we are about to issue for the discovery of the author or authors of the late atrocities in the East End of London, and to ask you, Sir, to augment our fund for the said purpose, or kindly state your reasons for refusing." To this letter he had received the following communication: "Sir, - I am directed by the Secretary of State to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 16th inst. with reference to the question of the offer of a reward for the discovery of the perpetrators of the recent murders in Whitechapel, and I am to inform you that had the Secretary of State considered the case a proper one for the offer of a reward he would at once have offered one on behalf of the Government, but that the practice of offering rewards for the discovery of criminals was discontinued some years ago, because experience showed that such offers of reward tended to produce more harm than good, and the Secretary of State is satisfied that there is nothing in the circumstances of the present case to justify a departure from this rule. - I am, sir, your obedient servant, G. LEIGH PEMBERTON. - Mr. B. Harris, The Crown, 74, Mile End-road, E."


Isaacs?! Doesnt that stand out....Im sure theres no connection.




Re the formation of the City Vigilance Commitee

From the St. James Gazette 3 October 1888


THE MURDERS AT THE EAST END
VIGILANCE COMMITTEES

A meeting was held yesterday afternoon, at Leadenhall House, Leadenhall street, in regard to the urgent need of special measures for tracking the Whitechapel murderer, and protecting the lives of the poor. Certain precautionary measures were deemed desirable in the public interest. After some discussion it was resolved to form a City Vigilance Committee, for the purpose of institution a private detective force and taking other steps, as might be thought desirable. It was also resolved to open an account with Messrs. Lloyd Bosanquet and Co., of Lombard street, and to ask Mr. S. Montagu, M.P., to act as chairman.

Just for info....and my own education



AP,

Re The Spitalfield Vigilance Committee, the East London Observer article you mention.

They gave themselve Police titles? Sergeant and Inspector?


Cheers
Monty

[Howard Brown]

Great stuff Monty,C.G. and A.P. !!

Thats an interesting find regarding Stead, A.P. I'm sure Joe Chetcuti will find it interesting as well.

Thats the first time I ever considered what you mentioned,Monty....about people profiting from the Ripper's work almost immediately. Of course,the newspapers probably did all across the board....but I didn't consider that some small businesses did too.

Thanks for mentioning that.

[Debra Arif]

Some great information on this thread, thank you Monty, AP and Chris.

Re the funding issue.
While I was checking out further on a few things Monty had posted I came across this list of Vigilance committees in existance in March 1886 all part of the 'National Vigilance association' set up in 1885 which affiliated into it's ranks the 'Central vigilance association' which was an older group already in existance in trying to combat immorality and vice.

Here's the list
Local branch committees, under the vigilance association Mar 1886
London;
Bethnal Green
Blackheath
Brixton
Depford
Finsbury Park
Hampstead
Mile End
Richmond
South Hornsea
Stoke Newington
Whitechapel
Wimbledon
Wood Green

As far as funding goes, any branch committee under the National vigilance association would have received funds directly from them as far as I can tell. The fact that the Whitechapel vigilance committee of 88 had to rely on donations to carry out it's patrols etc probably means it was a separate entity?


Monty, Thanks for all the information you posted some interesting snippets there. I'm going to check out a couple of those names against what I already have.
16 'well known' gentlemen and the 'chief' local traders eh?....they were certainly scraping the barrel a bit by the time they hired Le Grand and then afterwards involved Bachert (if he was involved with the same group) weren't they? I wonder how continuous the work of the WVC committee would have been? From reading the papers they seem to be active for only a short time after each murder and then having to re-group and re-fund themselves whenever another murder occured.

AP, wasn't Charrington also a big mover and shaker in getting brothels etc closed down. I don't know if he worked alone or if he was part of the vigilance association but he managed to get one of Bella Freeman's places closed down. Stead worked alongside a lot of others in his campaign though didn't he? I know you will have read them already, but there's quite a lot of interesting stuff in the Pall Mall Gazette about the new act for the protection of girls and the setting up of the vigilance association relating to Stead.


Debs

[AP Wolf]

Thanks folks, much to dwell on here.
The 'Star' of September 11th 1888 makes Stead's involvement a little clearer:

'
THE Pall Mall will have its little joke. Its latest piece of fun is a scathing condemnation of its own Vigilance Associations. The kind of work we recommend for discovering the Whitechapel murderer and for protecting his victims is precisely the kind of work which has been initiated for very similar purposes by Mr. Stead himself. As a matter of fact it has already been taken in hand by Mr. Stead's friends. Yet when The Star proposes it, it is a piece of "lunacy" and so forth. Lunacy or no, the East-enders are putting it in practice. '