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Harrison Barber—Horse Slaughterers

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Hi Gary

    If I'm reading it right, Nicholas Thomas Shippey was baptised 2nd Oct 1831 at Whitechapel.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Although it was clearly an unhealthy occupation, I wouldn't be surprised if families who'd been in the business for a few generations had built up a certain degree of immunity, as the toshers did.
    You could be right, Rob.

    Here's Nick Jr living up to my idea of the wicked knacker:

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    The Staffordshire Advertiser 14 December, 1861

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Although it was clearly an unhealthy occupation, I wouldn't be surprised if families who'd been in the business for a few generations had built up a certain degree of immunity, as the toshers did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    This looks like the family in 1841 in Red Lion Yard, Cowcross (Smithfield), close by Jack Atchelers Yard in Sharpes Alley.

    The family had been living in North Street, Whitechapel. After Nicholas snr died, Nicholas jnr moved first to Wolverhampton and then to Newton Heath where he lived with Henry Tomkins.

    There is a slight age discrepancy, which might be clarified if I could find jnr on the 1871 census. Tax records show he was in Newton Heath at the time, but I can't find him on the census.


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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    The 1881 census shows two boarders living with Henry Tomkins at 63, Thomas Street, Newton Heath:

    Thomas Shippy, 15, butcher, born Wolverhampton.

    Nicholas Shippy, 46, butcher, born London.

    Henry Tomkins is also shown as a butcher, but we know from various other contemporary sources that he was a 'horse-slaughterer's employee'. The 1861 census confirms that Nicholas Sheppy was also a horse slaughterer, born in Shoreditch.

    Searching for Nicholas Shippy, I discovered a death of a Nickolas/Nicholas Sheppy in Whitechapel in 1849. His address was Little North Street (the previous name for Winthrop Street).

    This could be yet another one of those non-existent horse-slaughtering dynasties, further underlining the close-knit nature of the trade.

    I have sent off for Nickolas Sheppy's death cert.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    This is the Marsh Gate pub in the 1930s. HB's premises would have been on the other side of MG Lane (where the wooden fence is presumably*) according to the 1902 directory. The site doesn't look big enough, but if the premises in Maiden Lane and Romford Market are anything to go by, the entrance would have been somewhat unprepossessing with large yards etc behind.

    1902 Directory for Stratford High Street:

    60 Chandler William, horse flesh purveyor
    64 Canham Robert, baker
    Post & Money Order Office & savings Bank
    66 Marsh Gate PH, George Waddington
    ... here is Marsh Gate Lane ...
    68 Harrison, Barber & Co Ltd, horse slaughterers
    72 Felton John, dining rooms

    *It's possible that 68, MGL was where the tobacconist's shop is in this photo. Certainly, the premises next door appear to be dining rooms, which would tie in to the 1902 directory.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Sean,

    There may well be some industrial buildings still standing in Marshgate Lane that could be old enough to have been HBs premises. See here:

    http://river-lea.co.uk/2000s/stratford/stratford13.html

    Gary
    A 1902 directory lists HB at 68 High Street on the Marsh Gate Lane corner. The Marsh Gate pub was next door at 66.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Sean,

    There may well be some industrial buildings still standing in Marshgate Lane that could be old enough to have been HBs premises. See here:

    http://river-lea.co.uk/2000s/stratford/stratford13.html

    Gary

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Sean Crundall View Post
    Hi Gary,

    I was thinking, that besides Nichols' links to Walworth, Camberwell and Wandsworth, Eddowes had links with Lambeth and Bermondsey; Kelly reportedly met someone at the Elephant and Castle. There are also other south London links.

    Yes, the case sometimes does my head in! Even the seemingly simplest areas of research continually throw up problems.

    My regards,

    Sean.
    Yes, I see what you mean.

    Perhaps you pick up on those similarities because you are South London based while I spot Maiden Lane/knackers yard coincidences because of family connections.

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  • Sean Crundall
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Do you mean Garrett Lane?

    That's always intrigued me. The fact that Polly worked briefly for the Cowdrys nearby and then suddenly (I think) turned up in the East End for the first time.

    HB's largest premises were there and it contained a large refridgeration facility capable of storing hundreds of horse carcases. Presumably they stored the excess stock from all their 7 London yards there and there would have been a regular transportation of carcases between Garrett Lane and the other premises.

    The Wandsworth Yard had been Wallis and Milestone before the HB buy-out and in 1861/71 there were Wandsworth born Wallis horse slaughterers living up in Belle Isle, one of them at the same address as the Tomkins family. It was a very incestuous little world.
    Hi Gary,

    I was thinking, that besides Nichols' links to Walworth, Camberwell and Wandsworth, Eddowes had links with Lambeth and Bermondsey; Kelly reportedly met someone at the Elephant and Castle. There are also other south London links.

    Yes, the case sometimes does my head in! Even the seemingly simplest areas of research continually throw up problems.

    My regards,

    Sean.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Sean Crundall View Post
    Hi Gary,

    It's possible that H.B. may have occupied arches 214-216a, although I think it likely that the arches were originally numbered per arch. I could be wrong.

    I'm surprised they didn't have other listed premises in the East End, post 1888. You may well be correct about the licencing. H.B. must have had serious money to have floated the company.

    Does the Stratford yard still exist?

    My regards,

    Sean.
    I don't know the answer to that. I should do.

    John Harrison was the financial wiz behind it all as far as I can tell. The 7 separate businesses were sold to HB with consideration partly in cash and partly in HB shares.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    This is William Monk in 1841, living in what was then Little North Street and later became Winthrop Street.

    The George Barnett below is my GGG grandfather and I think the Thomas Malcolm was his wife's father, so my GGGG grandfather.

    George took his family off to Wolverhampton ca 1850 (Bilston Road initially which ran into Bilston Street where the livestock market and horse repository were and where the Eddowes family lived). He returned a decade or so later and lived around (you guessed it) Maiden Lane, including Bingfield Street at the time of Emily Smith's supposed attack.

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  • Sean Crundall
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Sean,

    Having said that, it may be that HB actually occupied arches 214-216a, as Burdett Metals do today, with a yard off Parliament Street.

    There were no other East End premises listed in trade directories as far as I'm aware. When HB floated in 1885, Winthrop Street was the only East End premises listed. My guess would be that they would not have got a licence, post 1874, to set up a full-blown knackering operation in Bethnal Green.

    They did expand outside the Metropolitan Area - Marsh Gate Lane, Stratford for instance.

    Gary
    Hi Gary,

    It's possible that H.B. may have occupied arches 214-216a, although I think it likely that the arches were originally numbered per arch. I could be wrong.

    I'm surprised they didn't have other listed premises in the East End, post 1888. You may well be correct about the licencing. H.B. must have had serious money to have floated the company.

    Does the Stratford yard still exist?

    My regards,

    Sean.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    The coincidences in this case do my head in sometimes.

    For instance, Kate Eddowes' cousin's husband, Jesse Croote, was a horse dealer who at one point lived near Maiden Lane. His brother, Richard (I think), was a Maiden Lane manure dealer.

    And Emily Edith Smith, the girl who claimed to have been the victim of an unsuccessful ripper-style attack in Shadwell lived in Bingfield Street, a turning off... Maiden Lane.

    Leave a comment:

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