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Harrison Barber—Horse Slaughterers

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Sean Crundall View Post
    Hi Gary,

    Thanks for clarifying.

    I must admit that I find the potential Harrison and Barber link, with Nichols, very interesting. I've often pondered the south London connections.

    My regards,

    Sean.
    Do you mean Garrett Lane?

    That's always intrigued me. The fact that Polly worked briefly for the Cowdrys nearby and then suddenly (I think) turned up in the East End for the first time.

    HB's largest premises were off Garrett Lane and it contained a large refrigeration facility capable of storing hundreds of horse carcases. Presumably they stored the excess stock from all their 7 London yards there and there would have been a regular transportation of carcases to and from Garrett Lane and the other premises.

    The Wandsworth Yard had been Wallis and Milestone before the HB buy-out and in 1861/71 there were Wandsworth born Wallis horse slaughterers living up in Belle Isle, one of them at the same address as the Tomkins family. It was a very incestuous little world.

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  • Sean Crundall
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Hi Sean,

    The Winthrop Street premises were considerably larger than the arch, I would have said (see below). If they did have other premises, they do not appear to have been listed in trade directories.

    Regards,

    Gary

    [ATTACH]16711[/ATTACH]
    Hi Gary,

    Thanks for clarifying.

    I must admit that I find the potential Harrison and Barber link, with Nichols, very interesting. I've often pondered the south London connections.

    My regards,

    Sean.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Apropos of absolutely nothing:

    Alfred Barber's father, William, inherited the Winthrop Street business from the previous owner, William Monk. One of the conditions of the bequest was that Barber maintained a coach, horses and driver for the use of Monk's daughter.

    I can't recall now whether Ms Monk was still around in 1888. I'll have a look-see.

    Edit: William Monk's daughter, Ann Jane, died in the first quarter of 1863.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Sean,

    Having said that, it may be that HB actually occupied arches 214-216a, as Burdett Metals do today, with a yard off Parliament Street.

    There were no other East End premises listed in trade directories as far as I'm aware. When HB floated in 1885, Winthrop Street was the only East End premises listed. My guess would be that they would not have got a licence, post 1874, to set up a full-blown knackering operation in Bethnal Green.

    They did expand outside the Metropolitan Area - Marsh Gate Lane, Stratford for instance.

    Gary

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Sean Crundall View Post
    Hi Gary,

    You're welcome.

    These premises would have been small, but so was their Winthrop St address. I've been in some of these arches over the years, and they're surprisingly spacious. It's possible that the Witan St address also maintained the exact same line of business, as in Winthrop St.

    I wonder how large a company they were, and if they occupied other business premises (other than those we're aware of) in the East End? I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

    My regards,



    Sean.
    Hi Sean,

    The Winthrop Street premises were considerably larger than the arch, I would have said (see below). If they did have other East End premises, they do not appear to have been listed in trade directories.

    Regards,

    Gary

    Click image for larger version

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  • Sean Crundall
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    I wonder what went on there? It's a fairly small space, so I'm thinking probably not wholesale knackering or cat's meat boiling, even if they had a license to do so.
    Storage perhaps? Bags of ground bones or barrels of blood? Horsehair?
    Hi Gary,

    You're welcome.

    These premises would have been small, but so was their Winthrop St address. I've been in some of these arches over the years, and they're surprisingly spacious. It's possible that the Witan St address also maintained the exact same line of business, as in Winthrop St.

    I wonder how large a company they were, and if they occupied other business premises (other than those we're aware of) in the East End? I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

    My regards,

    Sean.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Railway Arch 216

    I wonder what went on there? It's a fairly small space, so I'm thinking probably not wholesale knackering or cat's meat boiling, even if they had a license to do so.

    Storage perhaps? Bags of ground bones or barrels of blood? Horsehair?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Railway Arch 216

    This is railway arch 216 on the corner of Witan Street (foreground) and Coventry Road (right), Bethnal Green.

    In the 1880s it was occupied by Harrison, Barber. The streets were then named Parliament Street and Coventry Street respectively. In 1888, Henry Tomkins lived in Coventry Street. His brother Thomas was living there in 1891.

    The magnificent photography is courtesy of Sean Crundall (thanks Sean).

    Click image for larger version

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Good find.

    Of course, nowadays the sign is displayed outside the Tate Modern.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Rubbish May Be Shot Here

    Here:

    http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/...ot-here-t12162

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Gary, I'm wondering if 'get shot of' is related.

    There was a scene in "I'm All Right Jack" where Ian Carmichael and Liz Fraser were canoodling in a car, and the camera pans to a sign "Rubbish shot here."
    Yes, it's starting to make sense. So The Tomkins boys were brought up in a rubbish dump. Some of what was dumped there was the lime spoil from gas works - little wonder that Henry's lungs gave out when he was just 31.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Gary, I'm wondering if 'get shot of' is related.

    There was a scene in "I'm All Right Jack" where Ian Carmichael and Liz Fraser were canoodling in a car, and the camera pans to a sign "Rubbish shot here."

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Gary, there are newspaper reports of the time concerning 'shooting rubbish.'
    Thanks, Rob. So the noun 'shoot' may well have been the equivalent of 'dump'.

    Funny how the name morphed from Belle Isle Shoot to Pleasant Grove. Today it's called Vale Royal and there's not a dust heap in sight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Gary, there are newspaper reports of the time concerning 'shooting rubbish.'

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Although he doesn't name it, Dickens describes Belle Isle to a T in OMF:

    Between Battle Bridge and that part of the Holloway district in which he dwelt, was a tract of suburban Sahara, where tiles and bricks were burnt, bones were boiled, carpets were beat, rubbish was shot, dogs were fought, and dust was heaped by contractors’ .

    So we can perhaps add dogfighting to the list of pastimes enjoyed by the Belle Islanders.
    I wonder if the word 'shoot' could have been a synonym for 'dump' back in the day? That might explain why some maps show Pleasant Grove as Belle Isle Shoot.

    Leave a comment:

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