Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Harrison Barber—Horse Slaughterers

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Gary:

    Did you get a chance to see this ?

    http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....871#post309871
    Hi How,

    Yes, I did. Thanks for that - very interesting.

    I suspect these men, if they existed, would have been regular slaughtermen rather than knackers, though. Given the nature of the victims' injuries, it's not surprising that a slaughterman came to mind at the time. And the proximity of the HB3 and Henry Tomkins's performance at Polly's inquest can only have only added support to the idea.

    The other Leech report I'd like to post is, on the face of it, just another piece of grossness about horse entrails, but it contains an interesting comment about daily deliveries of boiled horseflesh by rail between Wolverhampton and London as far back as 1864.

    Gary

    Comment


    • From The Staffordshire Advertiser, 10th December, 1864.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	124.6 KB
ID:	557606

      Comment


      • Thanks for reminding me of something, Gary.....one of Tompkins' kinfolk is on JTRForums FB....I'll see if she wants to join the main boards.
        To Join JTR Forums :
        Contact [email protected]

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
          Thanks for reminding me of something, Gary.....one of Tompkins' kinfolk is on JTRForums FB....I'll see if she wants to join the main boards.
          That's terrific news! I hope she won't be offended by the stuff I've posted about her family.

          Comment


          • Gary:

            Helen just joined.
            To Join JTR Forums :
            Contact [email protected]

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
              That's terrific news! I hope she won't be offended by the stuff I've posted about her family.

              Looking forward to reading it all Gary. We're gobsmacked so far to think we're related to them yikes my mother is such a gentle lady so we thought her family would've been really nice. Now I hope to find the truth ha ha x

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Helen Bell View Post
                Looking forward to reading it all Gary. We're gobsmacked so far to think we're related to them yikes my mother is such a gentle lady so we thought her family would've been really nice. Now I hope to find the truth ha ha x
                Helen,

                I'm a gentle soul myself, but some of were my ancestors were rather lively.

                They're a very friendly lot on here.

                This thread is the one that holds most of the stuff I've found out about the Tomkins's and their connections. I hope you enjoy reading it.

                Gary

                Comment


                • I picked up a rather tatty copy of Charles Dickens's 'All The Year Round' today - volume 19 from 1867/8 which contains the two horse-slaughtering reports from which I posted extracts below. I'd previously only read them online (which I hate). Reading them from the contemporary printed page is so much better.

                  One of the interesting comments made by John Harrison was that when he and his fellow investors first took over Atcheler's yard they thought it would be just a matter of turning up there once a month to collect their money and have a nice dinner with their managers. But after 3 months they found they were actually making a loss, largely because countless pounds of horseflesh had mysteriously gone missing. (Via the dung heap no doubt.) This may explain why Harrison insisted upon prosecuting Tomkins and Dawes in 1871.

                  Rereading the description of 'Potler' the knacker-artiste in his reefer jacket, I couldn't help wondering again whether he isn't in fact one of the men standing outside the Fortune of War in the photo in post 7.

                  The landlord's name in the photo is Charles Ritson. He held the licence from January, 1868 until at least 1882. Potler was said to be a young man in 1868 when the articles were written, so the photo may well have been taken while he was employed at John Harrison's yard. And there is clearly a man in a reefer jacket in the photo.

                  The two men to his left wearing what appear to be blood-smeared canvas over-clothes also match the description of Potler's 1868 'myrmidons'. If the photo was taken prior to June, 1871, one of them could have been William Tomkins. And as for the boy in the photo... could it be our 'Enry? Whoa, imagination!

                  Comment


                  • The idea that a slaughterman would have had a valid reason for wandering the streets smeared with blood is one that I've read many times over. But the evidence seems to suggest that knackers, at least, wore protective over-clothing. Did they wear it to and from the yard, or was it removed and left there at the end of their shift? If it was left, and they'd rolled their sleeves up before donning it and had a quick sluice of their hands and faces once they'd finished work for the night, there probably wouldn't have been much evidence of their occupation as they made their way home.

                    Comment


                    • For some reason, I had missed the Times report of Henry Tomkins's inquest testimony.

                      Whatever actual words were used by Tomkins to distance himself from the women he didn't like, the Times reporter construed them to mean that women did indeed call at the yard.

                      (Thanks, How)

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	202.7 KB
ID:	557614

                      Comment


                      • This is from the IPN of 22/9/1888.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	83.4 KB
ID:	557625

                        I wonder if it was drawn from life? If so, the way the men are dressed contradicts the picture I have built up in my head based on descriptions of the men at Harrison's Yard in Belle Isle. No canvas over-clothes or broad-brimmed hats in evidence here. High boots, aprons and nifty little caps (the one on the left looking somewhat nautical) are the order of the day. But can we trust the artists of the IPN?

                        The man on the right seems to be holding the poleaxe.

                        Comment


                        • Not HB, not the East End, not even Britain - but at least one HB man worked there: O'Keefe's knackers yard in Dublin.

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	78.7 KB
ID:	557627

                          Comment


                          • I wonder whether that Whitechapel Slaughter Yard was at Hart's or Harrison Barber.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                              I wonder whether that Whitechapel Slaughter Yard was at Hart's or Harrison Barber.
                              Well, we know Harts had premises in Bethnal Green where they weren't allowed to slaughter horses. Perhaps they opened another one in Whitechapel in contravention of the 1874 Act and started slaughtering there. And just for jolly invited the IPN artist round to record their illegal activity.

                              Perhaps they had a bijou undercover yard in Winthrop Street itself and that's why TAL gravitated there. The devious buggers!

                              (Or perhaps not.)

                              Comment


                              • ' S'pose a man went to Jack Atcheler's in Maiden Lane, for some raw horse, they wouldn't serve him.'

                                (This one is for Christer.)

                                Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	175.5 KB
ID:	557628

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X