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  • Sorry, missed the first part:

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    • Michael,

      Have a look at posts 721 and 722 on this thread. One is an aerial shot of the main Islington yard (or rather the block containing it) the other of the whole of Belle Isle.

      The main yard was not massively bigger than the one in Winthrop Street.

      Gary

      Comment


      • Gary,

        I await the day when you appear on Mastermind.

        'Mr. Barnett your specialised subject is...'

        'Horse slaughtering!'

        Steve Blomer thinks that something dodgy was going on at HB. I'll hopefully be meeting up with him in The Ten Bells in late September for an hour or two before I go on a Ripper walk for a chat about his research. Why don't you join us if you are free?
        Regards

        Michael🔎


        " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
          Gary,

          I await the day when you appear on Mastermind.

          'Mr. Barnett your specialised subject is...'

          'Horse slaughtering!'

          Steve Blomer thinks that something dodgy was going on at HB. I'll hopefully be meeting up with him in The Ten Bells in late September for an hour or two before I go on a Ripper walk for a chat about his research. Why don't you join us if you are free?
          Or,

          'Mr Barnett, your specialised subject is...?'

          'Knackers!'

          I'd love to hear what Steve has in mind about HB. Personally, I think the horse-slaughtering game was dodgy, full stop. Some great old characters though - Dickens wrote about Belle Isle on a number of occasions.

          At one stage I got close to developing a 'theory' about the Tomkins brothers. I still run through it sometimes when I'm having trouble getting off to sleep. It starts:

          Whitechapel Murders: April, 1888 - February, 1891
          Tomkins boys in the East End: April, 1888 - February, 1891...

          What stopped me in my tracks was making contact with a descendant of Thomas Tomkins (Henry's brother). Pity, in a way - I'd come up with a great title: The Boys From Belle Isle. $$$

          We spend a lot of our time in Dorset these days. If I'm around when you're down, I'd love to have a swift half with you and Steve. There's still a bit of interesting stuff to see in Spitalfields etc. The JTR 'museum' is a bit silly, but still worth a look, I'd say. And it's right next door to what's left of Wellclose Square.(My 'theory' about Thomas Fogarty still has a bit of life in it. Its title is Blind Man's Buff.)

          Cheers,

          Gary

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
            Or,

            'Mr Barnett, your specialised subject is...?'

            'Knackers!'

            I'd love to hear what Steve has in mind about HB. Personally, I think the horse-slaughtering game was dodgy, full stop. Some great old characters though - Dickens wrote about Belle Isle on a number of occasions.

            At one stage I got close to developing a 'theory' about the Tomkins brothers. I still run through it sometimes when I'm having trouble getting off to sleep. It starts:

            Whitechapel Murders: April, 1888 - February, 1891
            Tomkins boys in the East End: April, 1888 - February, 1891...

            What stopped me in my tracks was making contact with a descendant of Thomas Tomkins (Henry's brother). Pity, in a way - I'd come up with a great title: The Boys From Belle Isle. $$$

            We spend a lot of our time in Dorset these days. If I'm around when you're down, I'd love to have a swift half with you and Steve. There's still a bit of interesting stuff to see in Spitalfields etc. The JTR 'museum' is a bit silly, but still worth a look, I'd say. And it's right next door to what's left of Wellclose Square.(My 'theory' about Thomas Fogarty still has a bit of life in it. Its title is Blind Man's Buff.)

            Cheers,

            Gary
            Hi Gary,

            Whereabouts is the Fogerty thread I'd like to read up on him?

            I'll message you if me and Steve are meeting up (if Steve is free) I think that it will be on Thursday 28th September. I'm doing the Ripper walk from Aldgate East at 7.00(never done that one before) so I'll hopefully meet up with Steve earlier in the evening.
            Regards

            Michael🔎


            " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
              Hi Gary,

              Whereabouts is the Fogerty thread I'd like to read up on him?

              I'll message you if me and Steve are meeting up (if Steve is free) I think that it will be on Thursday 28th September. I'm doing the Ripper walk from Aldgate East at 7.00(never done that one before) so I'll hopefully meet up with Steve earlier in the evening.
              Here's Foggy:

              http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ggerty&page=35

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                Cheers Gary,

                I'll read it through over the next couple of days or so.
                Regards

                Michael🔎


                " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
                  Cheers Gary,

                  I'll read it through over the next couple of days or so.
                  Michael,

                  I'm not sure if you know that Foggy was Pearly Poll's husband.

                  Debra's work on Poll is an integral part of the story:


                  http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ht=Pearly+Poll

                  Gary

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    Michael,

                    I'm not sure if you know that Foggy was Pearly Poll's husband.

                    Debra's work on Poll is an integral part of the story:


                    http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ht=Pearly+Poll

                    Gary
                    Hi Gary,

                    I just finished reading through the thread on Fogerty. Fascinating stuff. Great research by yourself, Robert, Debra and others. My head's swimming a little but that's because I read it all in one go!
                    I've just made a start on the Pearly Poll thread. I only recently read The Bank Holiday Murders ('Confidential' is next on my list).
                    Regards

                    Michael🔎


                    " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
                      Hi Gary,

                      I just finished reading through the thread on Fogerty. Fascinating stuff. Great research by yourself, Robert, Debra and others. My head's swimming a little but that's because I read it all in one go!
                      I've just made a start on the Pearly Poll thread. I only recently read The Bank Holiday Murders ('Confidential' is next on my list).
                      I'm sure you enjoyed TBHM and will enjoy RC - I did.

                      Personally, though, I just don't see Poll as the chosen agent of some elaborate conspiracy. (Debra Arif's research has shown that she definitely wasn't involved in the framing of Pizer in Church Street.) However, I can see her being coerced into giving dodgy evidence to protect a close associate.

                      After her dubious performance at Tabram's inquest, Poll headed for North East Passage, a small alley leading from Wellclose Square into Cable Street. Foggy was living there at the time - it was very much his home turf - and by 1893 he and Poll had shacked up there. Shortly afterwards, they married.

                      Would Poll have lied to protect the 'Lord's of Spitalfields'?

                      Possibly, if she'd been paid, or threatened into doing so, but why would they have chosen a ditz like her to do the job?

                      Would she have lied to protect Thomas Fogarty?

                      Does the Pope shit in the woods?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        I'm sure you'll enjoy both TBHM and RC.

                        Personally, though, I just don't see Poll as the chosen agent of some elaborate conspiracy. (Debra Arif's research has shown that she definitely wasn't involved in the framing of Pizer in Church Street.) However, I can see her being coerced into giving dodgy evidence to protect a close associate.

                        After her dubious performance at Tabram's inquest, Poll headed for North East Passage, a small alley leading from Wellclose Square to Cable Street. Foggy was living there at the time - it was very much his home turf - and by 1893 he and Poll had shacked up together there. Shortly afterwards, they married .

                        Would Poll have lied to protect the 'Lord's of Spitalfields' ?

                        Possibly, if she'd been paid or threatened into doing so, but why would they have chosen a ditz like her to do the job?

                        Would she have lied to protect Thomas Fogarty?

                        Does the Pope shit in the woods?
                        I've read TBHM and enjoyed it. I think it was well written and with a lot of interesting info. I tend to steer clear of conspiracies but, as we all know, people lie. They usually have a reason to like protecting someone or themselves. It's hard to see Pearly Poll as a Mata Hari figure though (for some reason I always picture her as Bernard Bresslaw in drag! Maybe that says too much about me) It's certainly interesting to have facts called into question. Like how well Poll knew Martha (if at all.)
                        Do you see Fogerty as a ripper suspect Gary? Or just as a violent, ne'er-do-well?
                        Regards

                        Michael🔎


                        " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                        Comment


                        • >>Poll headed for North East Passage, a small alley leading from Wellclose Square to Cable Street.<<

                          Which of course was Elizabeth Stride's stomping ground, with the Swedish church being in Wellcose Sq.

                          It just goes to show how small an area the East End was, with so many connections intersecting. Fascinating stuff, indeed.
                          Thanks for your time,
                          dusty miller

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
                            I've read TBHM and enjoyed it. I think it was well written and with a lot of interesting info. I tend to steer clear of conspiracies but, as we all know, people lie. They usually have a reason to like protecting someone or themselves. It's hard to see Pearly Poll as a Mata Hari figure though (for some reason I always picture her as Bernard Bresslaw in drag! Maybe that says too much about me) It's certainly interesting to have facts called into question. Like how well Poll knew Martha (if at all.)
                            Do you see Fogerty as a ripper suspect Gary? Or just as a violent, ne'er-do-well?
                            If you were to ask me to put a name to a possible killer of Martha Tabram, the only one I could come up with would be Thomas Fogarty.

                            (Love your BB in drag, BTW.)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dusty Miller View Post
                              >>Poll headed for North East Passage, a small alley leading from Wellclose Square to Cable Street.<<

                              Which of course was Elizabeth Stride's stomping ground, with the Swedish church being in Wellcose Sq.

                              It just goes to show how small an area the East End was, with so many connections intersecting. Fascinating stuff, indeed.
                              Hi Dusty,

                              Stride's church was actually in the neighbouring Prince's/Swedenborg Square. Its 'NE Passage' was Shovel Alley, where my mother's family lived.

                              That SW corner of STGITE does seem to throw up a lot of connections to the case.

                              Regards,

                              Gary.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                                If you were to ask me to put a name to a possible killer of Martha Tabram, the only one I could come up with would be Thomas Fogarty.

                                (Love your BB in drag, BTW.)
                                A definate possibility. If Fogerty was with Tabram on that night it's reasonable to suggest that he got Poll to lie about the soldiers (especially considering TW's research which suggests that Poll was with MT that night.)

                                I was thinking about what effect on a violent, unbalanced Fogerty, the knowledge that he was going blind would have? Times were tough enough. Could it have tipped him over the edge?
                                Regards

                                Michael🔎


                                " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                                Comment

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