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View Poll Results: Is the Dutfield's Yard Photograph Authentic or Not?
YESH - A rare find, that. Congratulations to Mishter Hutchinson! 24 70.59%
NO - It's close, but no cigar. Thish photo is of another, similar location. 3 8.82%
PROBABLY IS BUT NOT 100% SURE - I want to believe that it is, but it's different from what was described in 1888. 2 5.88%
PROBABLY ISN'T BUT NOT 100% SURE 0 0%
DUNNO - I'll reserve judgment until Mishter Hutchinson's book comes out. 3 8.82%
SOD OFF - Thish poll is an insult to Ripperologists everywhere! 2 5.88%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM   #21
Howard Brown
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Phil:

I placed them on Casebook for your perusal.

By the way, you were pretty damned good on the recent "World of JTR". Imagine having me and you appear...you,for your knowledge and me obviously for my appeal to women...side by side...on a documentary?

Who needs Evans or Fido ?
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Old October 25th, 2008, 01:12 PM   #22
AP Wolf
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This is also a 1900 photograph of one of the murder scenes.
This and other Whitechapel photos of 1900 do give the distinct impression that the Dutfield's Yard photo is from another time period, and not from 1900.

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Old October 25th, 2008, 01:55 PM   #23
AP Wolf
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Ive been drifting through some of my old files and came across the following - which I hope I can post as it is a large image - which is an illustrated story about the IWEC at 40 Berner Street, showing a group of young girls sat on a bench in the club. I have now lost the date on the image, but I seem to remember it being some time after 1888.
Does anyone see the same thing as me?
That the girl sat on the left has a passing resemblance to another girl in another illustration?
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Old October 25th, 2008, 05:23 PM   #24
AP Wolf
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The date of the sketch is 1892.
I found it about two years ago, and it shows the interior of the Berner Street Club. Maybe I should write a book?
Whatever, give the young girl on the left another eight years to mature into a young lady, then who does she resemble?
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Old October 25th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #25
Howard Brown
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Not germane to anything regarding Phil's find...but didn't a substantial number of non-Jewish British anarchists drift from "la causa" because the English anarchists were less desirous of seeing Mother England's traditions & culture get the heave ho and were more focused on merely bridging the gap between economic classes ..eventually leaving a majority Jewish anarchist element in the Big Smoke ? Thanks and sorry once more.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 04:59 PM   #26
Natalie Severn
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A fascinating article and images of the interior of the Berner street Club, AP.
But I would love to know who wrote the article-clearly whoever wrote it satisfied "Melville".
A very unusual find, and thankyou Ap, for sharing it. In Fishman"s books,"East End 1888",and "East End Jewish Radicals" ,there are several written descriptions of the interior of the club and of the people who met there.But they date only to 1892 because the club then disbanded and some members moved to the Sugar Loaf in Hanbury Street,others went off to a secret "anarchist" location off Commercial Road.This was because the building in Dutfield"s Yards was considered too old and unsafe for public use by 1892 and the local council had declared it too dangerous for them to stay---and that a notice to quit was about to be served on them.There were also splits developing,as Howard correctly points out but these were about evolving politics, some members becoming staunch anarchists and others emerging socialists,it was in one such" splits " William Morris became a famous casualty.
Also the young girls look rather young to be " club members" ,though they could ,ofcourse ,have been the younger sisters of club members--- the club did have "family events" at weekends, which must have been when all the family were invited---my reservation to them actually being children of "club members" is that Diemshutz was one of the oldest "club members" at the ripe old age of 27!

The men look quite typical though ,I would think,but I suspect the drawings in the book must be a few years earlier than 1900,possibly around 1891/2 ?
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Old October 27th, 2008, 12:26 PM   #27
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I'm not sure, Natalie, that the IWEC did quit the Berner Street premises in 1892, as I've just found a reference in 'Willings Press Guide' of 1895 still listing the IWEC as at that address in that year.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #28
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And to answer an earlier question from How.
In the time period we discuss here 40 Berner Street was owned by a Mr Ficklin (and unnamed partner), who in turn let it to Mr Dutfield, who in turn sub-let the premises to a Mr Cohenlask.
After Mr Dutfield became bankrupt in 1897, Mister Cohenlask was served notice to quit the premises by 1st March 1898.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #29
Natalie Severn
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Ap ,I have discovered that that is a distinct possibility.Reading up Appendix 1 in" East End Jewish Radicals" [Fishman]-there is an Evening Standard article of 2 October 1894 ,entitled "The Haunts of the East End Anarchist" .It states that the Berner Street [-old club ] premises has window bills,written in Hebrew characters,advertising "loshings" or a "bec-rum" [back room] to let."And further on,"Berner Street",the article states,"was until lately the rallying place of Russo -Jewish Anarchists".
You still dont say who wrote that brilliant find of yours Ap!
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Old November 9th, 2008, 11:33 PM   #30
Brad McGinnis
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This seems like a tempest in a tea cup. As lots of people know, Phil and I have locked horns at times, but I won't question his integrity . As How said he's a stand up guy. He's brash, opinionated, and egotistical, ( so am I) but he's the real deal. I know from our battles he is a man of high moral conviction, Im sure the photo is what he says it is. I, like many others hav'nt seen it, but I gotta back Phil on this one.
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